Controversial Twitch streamer Hasan Piker defended former Chinese leader Mao Zedong as a “great man of history,” despite presiding over millions of deaths from state-mandated policies, forced labor, and mass famines during his rule.
Piker sat down for a wide-ranging interview with Axios this week and was pressed on his favorable views of some aspects of China’s political and economic ecosystem. Piker defended his praise of Mao and elements of China’s governing model during the interview.
The popular left-wing streamer previously said he would “never criticize” Mao and called him “one of the great leaders of this world,” comments Piker told the outlet were partly made in jest after a brief encounter with police while visiting Tiananmen Square in Beijing.
But Piker stood by his broader assessment of Mao’s reign when asked whether he considered the communist revolutionary a great leader.
“When I say Mao is a great leader, I mean he’s a great man of history,” Piker said.
Piker conceded that there was an “excess” of deaths under Mao, which he attributed to being “born out of mismanagement and famine.”
Estimates of the death toll under Mao vary considerably. The Great Leap Forward, Mao’s campaign to rapidly industrialize China’s largely agricultural economy, resulted in a devastating famine between 1958 and 1962. Some estimates put the number of deaths from the famine as high as 45 million. Mao’s Cultural Revolution, launched in 1966, led to widespread political persecution, including state-sanctioned violence, and an estimated 1.5 million additional deaths.
The streamer said he did not believe the famine deaths were intentional and called them “horrifying.” When asked whether the deaths were ultimately worth China’s later development, he declined to make that judgment.
“I can’t speak for that,” Piker said. “I think Chinese people feel that way, though. They see it as, they see it as growing pains, almost. I don’t. I think it’s, it’s crazy. I think it’s a lot of unnecessary excess deaths that took place, but it is a remarkable achievement to lift 800 million people out of extreme poverty. I think that it’s not about the state repression. It’s not about you know the pest campaign and the liquidation of the sparrows.”
During the interview, Piker said he sees China as being on an upward trajectory, whereas in the U.S., future prosperity is less certain. Still, he said he would deny Chinese citizenship if offered in favor of staying in America. The streamer also rejected the idea of implementing China’s rapid industrialization in the U.S., but said there are some aspects he believes America could learn from China.
“There’s also a massive renewable energy push in the Chinese government,” he said. “I think instead of looking at that and then moving full blown into the realm of fossil fuels and redoubling our efforts in in supporting the oil and gas industry, we should have — for a very long time — been focusing on renewable energy to make sure that we built an industrial base here in the United States of America for not only solar panels but for batteries and focus on building battery technology.”
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Piker ultimately narrowed his argument down to the “economic side,” saying that while he praises certain aspects of Chinese governance, he “loves” America.
“I’m fairly certain that we could achieve certain elements of Chinese governance, whether it be control over capital, whether it be rapid industrialization and even urbanization as well, without having to engage in mass repression,” he said. “Now, having said that, I talk to you about how I love America, how I’m an American citizen. I mean, I love America regardless of the struggles that we have here as well.”